Circuit Issues and ILS Landings



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Posted Sunday, March 21, 2021 3:38:06 PM
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Hi - I'm attempting to do circuits and having several issues. I'm flying an Eclipse 550NG at KSFO. I've loaded the airport data. I'm running as administrator. I'm an experienced X-Plane simmer - 18 months. I have the latest Navdata data.

Circuit.
1) FSFS recognizes that I'm starting a circuit, but it often does not provide instruction in terms of when to turn onto each segment.
2) It also thinks I'm just flying normally, so it keeps giving contradictory instructions like 'you shouldn't be descending during takeoff - not recognizing that I'm leveling off to 1000 ft for crosswind and minimally dropping altitude to adjust on occasion.
3) Sometimes it asks if I'm in cruise during a circuit and I don't know how to respond. I'm doing a circuit. Most of the time it never gives instruction on turning on to base leg. On all segments I am sticking to the minimum and maximum time limits.
4) On final it says don't want to lose altitude on takeoff, and tells me to retract landing gear.
4) My aircraft calls out '1000 ft' and on occasion FSFS does too - but then it tells me every 5 seconds to maintain 1000 ft when I'm only varying 50 ft here and there.
5) Flying KSFO on a left circuit you pass over hills which you don't want to run into, so more than 1000 ft over runway altitude is required. FSFS seems to get confused and gives contradictory instructions.

Normal flight
1) Takeoff - I advance the throttle to full power gradually and as I'm increasing speed on the runway it tells me to either give it full throttle or decrease throttle when I'm at 100% N1.
2) ILS approach, to EGLL runway 27R, everything setup correctly. As I approach the runway everything is fine until I'm over it, then the glideslope indicator jumps up and FSFS says I'm below the glideslope, but if I ascend to match it I'm going to land about halfway down the runway, if ever.
3) FSFS says to flare when I'm about 75 feet above the runway, and if I do that again I will be landing way down the runway.
4) It says I've landed when I'm 50 ft above the runway. Seems that something is wrong with the elevation. It's a bit better with KSFO.

Anyway - very frustrating as one can imagine. It seem I can't do anything correctly - although I do get 90-100 on regular flight (ILS landing excepted) I'm hoping there is some simple fix.

Thanks in advance.


X-Plane | MSFS2020
Post #14314
Posted Monday, March 22, 2021 5:34:13 AM


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Hi Mandretti:

Great to read that you are getting some good scores with FSFlyingSchool!

>> Hi - I'm attempting to do circuits and having several issues. I'm flying an Eclipse 550NG at KSFO. I've loaded the airport data. I'm running as administrator. I'm an experienced X-Plane simmer - 18 months. I have the latest Navdata data.

Thanks for flying with us - glad to help!

>> Circuit.
1) FSFS recognizes that I'm starting a circuit, but it often does not provide instruction in terms of when to turn onto each segment.

The instructor watches the pilot and will indicate that a turn needs to be made - this occurs if it is getting too late but not before.


>> 2) It also thinks I'm just flying normally, so it keeps giving contradictory instructions like 'you shouldn't be descending during takeoff - not recognizing that I'm leveling off to 1000 ft for crosswind and minimally dropping altitude to adjust on occasion.

This is because the pilot must always indicate which flight mode he/she is in: Taxi, Take-off, Cruise or Landing. Without this the instructor does not know what the pilot is doing.

Note that circuits are not a flight mode – they can be chosen and practiced, but all flights need the pilot to indicate which flight mode he/she is in.



>> 3) Sometimes it asks if I'm in cruise during a circuit and I don't know how to respond. I'm doing a circuit. Most of the time it never gives instruction on turning on to base leg. On all segments I am sticking to the minimum and maximum time limits.

Please see above (1) and (2).



>> 4) On final it says don't want to lose altitude on takeoff, and tells me to retract landing gear.

This concerns the flight mode – when it is being indicated during the flight, the instructor will not give contradictory advise.






>> 4) My aircraft calls out '1000 ft' and on occasion FSFS does too - but then it tells me every 5 seconds to maintain 1000 ft when I'm only varying 50 ft here and there.

The circuit practice is certainly demanding. The levels of precision were chosen after dozens of hours of flights by testers and customers. There are still folks who would like the tolerances to be tighter, but most folks are happy with the current tolerances. Note that the logic is very specifically looking at the pilot being over 100 feet too low or over 100 feet to high.



>> 5) Flying KSFO on a left circuit you pass over hills which you don't want to run into, so more than 1000 ft over runway altitude is required. FSFS seems to get confused and gives contradictory instructions.


The circuit practice in FSFlyingSchool works on the basis that the pilot will fly the circuit 1000 feet above airfield altitude. As we can imagine, there are of course many runways around the world where this is not the real world procedure.




>> Normal flight
1) Takeoff - I advance the throttle to full power gradually and as I'm increasing speed on the runway it tells me to either give it full throttle or decrease throttle when I'm at 100% N1.

FSFlyingSchool has no logic to tell the pilot to decrease throttle during a take-off run. Can you tell me exactly what the instructor says when this occurs?


>> 2) ILS approach, to EGLL runway 27R, everything setup correctly. As I approach the runway everything is fine until I'm over it, then the glideslope indicator jumps up and FSFS says I'm below the glideslope, but if I ascend to match it I'm going to land about halfway down the runway, if ever.

This appears to indicate that the glideslope indicator is giving an incorrect reading.





>> 3) FSFS says to flare when I'm about 75 feet above the runway, and if I do that again I will be landing way down the runway.

The instructor will call out “50, 40, 30, 20, 10” as you approach the runway surface. Are you reporting that when the instructor says “20 feet – flare!” (the callout is always the same) he/she has said nothing about “50, 40, 30, 20, 10” at that point?


>> 4) It says I've landed when I'm 50 ft above the runway. Seems that something is wrong with the elevation. It's a bit better with KSFO.

This is very puzzling. I’m not sure I can recall any other reports of such a phenomenon so there must be something uniquely different about the XP installation, the scenery installation, or the aircraft installation on the PC.

What is the published version number of XP?

Is the scenery in question an add-on? If so, who published it? What is the published version number?

Who published the aircraft? What is the published version number?




Jeff Preston ('Squadron Leader') - FSFlyingSchool Publisher & Lead Developer

If you wish to unsubscribe simply reply to email with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT line.


FSFlyingSchool for Microsoft Flight Simulator
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FS Instant Approach for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Help for FSX, FS2004


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Post #14315
Posted Monday, March 22, 2021 9:07:03 PM
FSFlyingSchool Pilot

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Hi Mandretti:

Great to read that you are getting some good scores with FSFlyingSchool!

>> Hi - I'm attempting to do circuits and having several issues. I'm flying an Eclipse 550NG at KSFO. I've loaded the airport data. I'm running as administrator. I'm an experienced X-Plane simmer - 18 months. I have the latest Navdata data.

Thanks for flying with us - glad to help!

>> Circuit.
1) FSFS recognizes that I'm starting a circuit, but it often does not provide instruction in terms of when to turn onto each segment.

The instructor watches the pilot and will indicate that a turn needs to be made - this occurs if it is getting too late but not before.

OK - that's helpful to know.

>> 2) It also thinks I'm just flying normally, so it keeps giving contradictory instructions like 'you shouldn't be descending during takeoff - not recognizing that I'm leveling off to 1000 ft for crosswind and minimally dropping altitude to adjust on occasion.

This is because the pilot must always indicate which flight mode he/she is in: Taxi, Take-off, Cruise or Landing. Without this the instructor does not know what the pilot is doing.

Note that circuits are not a flight mode – they can be chosen and practiced, but all flights need the pilot to indicate which flight mode he/she is in.

In your manual on Circuits item #8 it says "Unlike FSFlyingSchool modes, you do not need to tell your FSFS instructor which leg of your circuit you are on; your instructor will determine that". That's the confusing part for me I was not expecting to have to advance the legs in the normal way. Is that an error in the manual - or am I just misunderstanding what it's saying

>> 3) Sometimes it asks if I'm in cruise during a circuit and I don't know how to respond. I'm doing a circuit. Most of the time it never gives instruction on turning on to base leg. On all segments I am sticking to the minimum and maximum time limits.

Please see above (1) and (2).

See above.



>> 4) On final it says don't want to lose altitude on takeoff, and tells me to retract landing gear.

This concerns the flight mode – when it is being indicated during the flight, the instructor will not give contradictory advise.






>> 4) My aircraft calls out '1000 ft' and on occasion FSFS does too - but then it tells me every 5 seconds to maintain 1000 ft when I'm only varying 50 ft here and there.

The circuit practice is certainly demanding. The levels of precision were chosen after dozens of hours of flights by testers and customers. There are still folks who would like the tolerances to be tighter, but most folks are happy with the current tolerances. Note that the logic is very specifically looking at the pilot being over 100 feet too low or over 100 feet to high.

Ok Thanks - that's helpful.

>> 5) Flying KSFO on a left circuit you pass over hills which you don't want to run into, so more than 1000 ft over runway altitude is required. FSFS seems to get confused and gives contradictory instructions.

The circuit practice in FSFlyingSchool works on the basis that the pilot will fly the circuit 1000 feet above airfield altitude. As we can imagine, there are of course many runways around the world where this is not the real world procedure.

That makes sense and good to know the parameters in which it operates.


>> Normal flight
1) Takeoff - I advance the throttle to full power gradually and as I'm increasing speed on the runway it tells me to either give it full throttle or decrease throttle when I'm at 100% N1.

FSFlyingSchool has no logic to tell the pilot to decrease throttle during a take-off run. Can you tell me exactly what the instructor says when this occurs?

I'll try to recreate this, but what about the first issue where I'm at 100% and it tells me to increase throttle?

>> 2) ILS approach, to EGLL runway 27R, everything setup correctly. As I approach the runway everything is fine until I'm over it, then the glideslope indicator jumps up and FSFS says I'm below the glideslope, but if I ascend to match it I'm going to land about halfway down the runway, if ever.

This appears to indicate that the glideslope indicator is giving an incorrect reading.

That was my thinking as well - I've submitted a post on the X-Plane forum about that but have not received a reply as yet.

>> 3) FSFS says to flare when I'm about 75 feet above the runway, and if I do that again I will be landing way down the runway.

The instructor will call out “50, 40, 30, 20, 10” as you approach the runway surface. Are you reporting that when the instructor says “20 feet – flare!” (the callout is always the same) he/she has said nothing about “50, 40, 30, 20, 10” at that point?

No. I'm saying that it appears to call for the flare at an inappropriate altitude - too high. And the instructor call out and the aircraft call out for landing altitudes do not always agree. Maybe that's related to the glideslope indicator issue as well - don't know.


>> 4) It says I've landed when I'm 50 ft above the runway. Seems that something is wrong with the elevation. It's a bit better with KSFO.

This is very puzzling. I’m not sure I can recall any other reports of such a phenomenon so there must be something uniquely different about the XP installation, the scenery installation, or the aircraft installation on the PC.

What is the published version number of XP?

X-Plane 11.52 - the latest Vulcan.

Is the scenery in question an add-on? If so, who published it? What is the published version number?

Yes - it's ORBX TrueEarth scenery for Northern California and for Great Britain South. I can find no version information on ORBX Central about these products.

Who published the aircraft? What is the published version number?

Aerobask Eclipse 550NG. I do not know the published version number and have not been able to find where that would be. If it's important I will spend more time researching this.

Thanks for your help and quick response.


X-Plane | MSFS2020
Post #14316
Posted Wednesday, March 24, 2021 9:50:31 AM


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Last Login: Today @ 3:18:04 AM
Posts: 4,880, Visits: 8,681
Hi Mandretti:

Great to read that you are getting some good scores with FSFlyingSchool!

>> Hi - I'm attempting to do circuits and having several issues. I'm flying an Eclipse 550NG at KSFO. I've loaded the airport data. I'm running as administrator. I'm an experienced X-Plane simmer - 18 months. I have the latest Navdata data.

Thanks for flying with us - glad to help!

>> Circuit.
1) FSFS recognizes that I'm starting a circuit, but it often does not provide instruction in terms of when to turn onto each segment.

The instructor watches the pilot and will indicate that a turn needs to be made - this occurs if it is getting too late but not before.

OK - that's helpful to know.

>> 2) It also thinks I'm just flying normally, so it keeps giving contradictory instructions like 'you shouldn't be descending during takeoff - not recognizing that I'm leveling off to 1000 ft for crosswind and minimally dropping altitude to adjust on occasion.

This is because the pilot must always indicate which flight mode he/she is in: Taxi, Take-off, Cruise or Landing. Without this the instructor does not know what the pilot is doing.

Note that circuits are not a flight mode – they can be chosen and practiced, but all flights need the pilot to indicate which flight mode he/she is in.

In your manual on Circuits item #8 it says "Unlike FSFlyingSchool modes, you do not need to tell your FSFS instructor which leg of your circuit you are on; your instructor will determine that". That's the confusing part for me I was not expecting to have to advance the legs in the normal way. Is that an error in the manual - or am I just misunderstanding what it's saying


++++ It is not an error - let me put it this way - all you have to do is tell the instructor when you want to start flying a circuit - and you can cancel that if you choose not to.

++++ In addition - you always, when flying with FSFlyingSchool, need to tell the instructor your flight mode. Taxi, take-off, cruise or landing.








>> 3) Sometimes it asks if I'm in cruise during a circuit and I don't know how to respond. I'm doing a circuit. Most of the time it never gives instruction on turning on to base leg. On all segments I am sticking to the minimum and maximum time limits.

Please see above (1) and (2).

See above.

++++ As we can see this is covered above.





>> 4) On final it says don't want to lose altitude on takeoff, and tells me to retract landing gear.

This concerns the flight mode – when it is being indicated during the flight, the instructor will not give contradictory advise.






>> 4) My aircraft calls out '1000 ft' and on occasion FSFS does too - but then it tells me every 5 seconds to maintain 1000 ft when I'm only varying 50 ft here and there.

The circuit practice is certainly demanding. The levels of precision were chosen after dozens of hours of flights by testers and customers. There are still folks who would like the tolerances to be tighter, but most folks are happy with the current tolerances. Note that the logic is very specifically looking at the pilot being over 100 feet too low or over 100 feet to high.

Ok Thanks - that's helpful.

>> 5) Flying KSFO on a left circuit you pass over hills which you don't want to run into, so more than 1000 ft over runway altitude is required. FSFS seems to get confused and gives contradictory instructions.

The circuit practice in FSFlyingSchool works on the basis that the pilot will fly the circuit 1000 feet above airfield altitude. As we can imagine, there are of course many runways around the world where this is not the real world procedure.

That makes sense and good to know the parameters in which it operates.


>> Normal flight
1) Takeoff - I advance the throttle to full power gradually and as I'm increasing speed on the runway it tells me to either give it full throttle or decrease throttle when I'm at 100% N1.

FSFlyingSchool has no logic to tell the pilot to decrease throttle during a take-off run. Can you tell me exactly what the instructor says when this occurs?

I'll try to recreate this, but what about the first issue where I'm at 100% and it tells me to increase throttle?


++++ The instructor can certainly say “Increase throttle” but this is when it has room to increase and is clearly too low. What speed is the plane travelling at when this occurs on the runway?

++++ Are you using an add-on throttle controller? If so – what is it and what version is it?



>> 2) ILS approach, to EGLL runway 27R, everything setup correctly. As I approach the runway everything is fine until I'm over it, then the glideslope indicator jumps up and FSFS says I'm below the glideslope, but if I ascend to match it I'm going to land about halfway down the runway, if ever.

This appears to indicate that the glideslope indicator is giving an incorrect reading.

That was my thinking as well - I've submitted a post on the X-Plane forum about that but have not received a reply as yet.

>> 3) FSFS says to flare when I'm about 75 feet above the runway, and if I do that again I will be landing way down the runway.

The instructor will call out “50, 40, 30, 20, 10” as you approach the runway surface. Are you reporting that when the instructor says “20 feet – flare!” (the callout is always the same) he/she has said nothing about “50, 40, 30, 20, 10” at that point?

No. I'm saying that it appears to call for the flare at an inappropriate altitude - too high. And the instructor call out and the aircraft call out for landing altitudes do not always agree. Maybe that's related to the glideslope indicator issue as well - don't know.

++++ There has to be something wrong with the data being given to FSFlyingSchool from the add-on scenery.




>> 4) It says I've landed when I'm 50 ft above the runway. Seems that something is wrong with the elevation. It's a bit better with KSFO.

This is very puzzling. I’m not sure I can recall any other reports of such a phenomenon so there must be something uniquely different about the XP installation, the scenery installation, or the aircraft installation on the PC.

What is the published version number of XP?

X-Plane 11.52 - the latest Vulcan.

Is the scenery in question an add-on? If so, who published it? What is the published version number?

Yes - it's ORBX TrueEarth scenery for Northern California and for Great Britain South. I can find no version information on ORBX Central about these products.


++++ Please try some landings at runways with ILS which are not add-on scenery with a standard aircraft such as the c172 so we can attempt to narrow the field of what is causing these issues.



Who published the aircraft? What is the published version number?

Aerobask Eclipse 550NG. I do not know the published version number and have not been able to find where that would be. If it's important I will spend more time researching this.

++++ Let’s leave that for now – landings with standard airports and planes are more important right now.


Thanks for your help and quick response.


++++ Always happy to help!




Jeff Preston ('Squadron Leader') - FSFlyingSchool Publisher & Lead Developer

If you wish to unsubscribe simply reply to email with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT line.


FSFlyingSchool for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FSFlyingSchool 2021 for X-Plane 11 and 10
FS Instant Approach 2021 for X-Plane 11 (Windows)
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2020 Prepar3D v 5
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2019 FSX, FSX-SE, FS2004
FS Instant Approach 2019 for X-Plane 11 (Mac)
FS Instant Approach for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Help for FSX, FS2004


Winner of 5 consecutive PC Pilot Magazine 'Classic Product' Awards

Fly like the Pros with X-Plane, Flight Simulator and Prepar3D!
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